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June 8, 2011 Haze Categories: General News. 41 Comments on She can get up, shower, and in half an hour she’d be gone

As my involvement in MAME continues to wind down I’ve decided to make a fresh start to this blog.

I wanted to do a summary of all the things in MAME which I’ve been involved with, but the list was monstrous and quickly became unwieldy. I think I must have been actively involved in development on at least half of the supported titles in MAME in some capacity, be it writing the drivers from scratch, rewriting drivers based on new information, acting as support to other people, or simply fixing bugs in existing drivers when adding new supported sets and/or games.

While the overall structure of the project has changed a lot over the years MAME will always be judged on the functionality it provides to the end user, the history it has documented, discoveries, and the proof in the implementation, looking through the project it still lives and breathes work I’ve done in these areas, summing it up is simply impossible not to mention unfair.

Unfair? I’ve never been one to want to take credit for things I haven’t done, in fact I’ve often worked without credit, just to get things done, to help out, make things better; the project is, and always will be one of near unrivaled historical importance which is far more important than any personal gain from it. It’s also important to understand with emulation that you’re always working with things which have been created by other people. The CPU cores for example are an area I’ve had minimal involvement in (mainly just bug fixes when needed), yet without them almost none of the things I’ve emulated would have been possible. Claiming absolute credit for anything in emulation is just wrong, at least if you’re a team player in the project.

I might revisit some highlights here however, some reflective insight into the highs and lows of the last 11 years of my contributions to MAME. I’ll probably still work on a few MAME things as well as posting about other things which interest me here, there’s definitely at least still the early Semicom / Jeil / Cheil game ‘Brixian‘ to come at least!

I’ve previously stated my honest opinions on the direction I feel the project should head, some have agreed with that, others have disagreed, I’m still fairly certain things will end up exactly as I’ve outlined, the time period remains indefinite however. Along those lines, for anybody wanting to have access to the bleeding edge official MAME/MESS distributions (much more up to date than the u releases) I’ve added a little page which explains how. Maybe that can encourage development a little, allowing people to mirror and host daily builds, but I’m doubtful at this point.

I do wonder exactly where things go from here with the project in the short term. The things I’ve highlighted in previous posts there has been little interest in (I plan a recap on that at some point), but if I was a betting man I’d probably say something like Namco System 10 was the most likely next significant system to be emulated, after all, it’s just a Playstation with some protection, nothing fancy. Beyond that it’s just tumbleweed; promising progress shown on drivers for 3D systems which ultimately get abandoned or never submitted, things nobody is interested in working on, and a couple of others which are decidedly too hard, or simply impossible. MESS is still the most likely source of real emulation progress, and advances in shared systems could be the main source of progress in MAME going forward, the recent advancements in PC emulation thanks to some external contributions could help pave the way for some PC based arcade systems, although the 386+ protected mode emulation still needs significant work before that happens.

Speaking of MESS, you may notice the HazeMD stuff isn’t hosted here anymore. It’s obsolete. MESS is still using a version of my Megadrive / Genesis driver to which I’ve made many fixes since the last HazeMD release, and with the Software List support the internal database from HazeMD is already fully covered in MESS. With the latest MESS you can also take advantage of new features like the recently added HLSL shaders to give a more authentic looking output, so it makes more sense to use that. The purpose / goal of HazeMD was complete, and the only real advantage HazeMD had remaining was the old cheat system, and maybe better compatibility with some legacy hardware.

This is not the end, merely a new beginning.

41 Comments

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Cheers to you and your future work. I’ve lurked around here and the various other mamedev sites for probably nigh on a decade. Particularly always enjoyed following your work and RB’s. I could sit here and praise your work (and of course everyone else’s by extension) all day but I’ll attempt to cut to the chase.

So much has been accomplished over the years through information sharing and the dedicated free time work you and others put into things that quite simply boggle my mind. From the first time I could use Mame to relive memories of Pengo and Pac-man with one program, the Williams games, buying a new PC for Final Fight. I never thought I’d see CPS 3 emulated and had given those games up for lost to their suiciding boards. The wonder of every new advancement has never really worn off on me. Even if there had always been some petty politics the love of the source, love of the work and the pioneering spirit always seemed win out and achieve amazing things. Kind of gutting to read about the attitude shifts from your perspective.

I guess in the end just thanks to you and everyone else who have put in the countless hours up until today, and indeed appreciation for all further efforts. There are still those out here who just dig it as it happens and are cool with happening at whatever pace it needs for it to really be done right and preserve the art and history we all love. Keep up the good work for as long as you can enjoy it and hang the rest of it.

Apologies for typos, still not really used to typing on this phone.

All the best for the future and thanks for your work so far.

Yes, all the best – I’d like to say that I’d never have felt comfortable with the whole MAME thing if it wasn’t for your kind support, and I’d hate to think you were gone for good.

Come on, continue your work for us all. Emulation is a passion. Don’t let some people put away your love for it.

It doesn’t say I’m quitting… It says there is little left I can actually do, and with overall differences of opinion on the direction of the projects, that’s unlikely to change. That’s why I’ve phrased it as winding down. The project is more or less in maintenance mode right now so I’m exploring other avenues.

IMSHO hopefully we’ll see some advances in Saturn/Dreamcast emulation, and Model 3 seems to be progressing.

Again, IMSHO there aren’t a lot of “popular” games still needing emulation.

Its unfortunate that many PC based/PS2 based boards are so fragile, and the news of Tekken Tag 2 using always online and having to pay for points make me wonder if many future boards will never be emulated as the protection will be draconian, plus the existing DMCA laws might keep people from cracking the code in the PCBs.

I appreciate all you and others have done, and feel blessed that over 90% of the games I like are emulated.

Thanks Haze!

Yes, MAME has changed a lot in the last year and I must admit, my interest in it is winding down. I am 40 years-old and everything I remember is emulated in MAME. The games from mid-90’s on are uninteresting to me as MAME is more of a program I use to remember the “good ol days’ rather than play a game.

Haze, as most others do, I appreciate your work. The selfish side of me wishes you to stay and keep rolling with MAME. The personal side of me understands your feelings (which I personally agree with).

As was said by a few MAME DEV’s … most, if not all, of the easy stuff is done in MAME. Look at MAME over the past 6 months … look at the games added. 99% of the games are Japanese, Korean pr0n, prototypes or clones. While I understand the reason to add these games, none of these types are what I look forward to.

Admit it people, MAME’s heyday is over. MAME is winding down. The new games that are added won’t be playable (at a reasonable framerate) in MAME anytime in the near future (if ever).

Who knows … maybe Haze can do cameos here and there and we can catch ourselves saying “I remember this dev” :)

Jason

Black Touch ’96’ should be the easier work

im so sad , as time goes , mame is not anymore mame it was, yeah we should rename it to mamekorean hack, or stupid hacks like final crash etc that has no interest in documentation, playability etc
i remember haze working hard on b rap boys, very rare game, and some progresing ,cps3 , zero team etc,
these were value added ,

Such a shame to see the project slowly dying, as it was MAME that made me take the plunge and buy my first PC back in 1998….but as the saying goes “All good things….”

The phrase “Jack of all trades, master of none”…pretty much sums up MAME these days.

Unless MAME embraces the use of 3D cards, its going nowhere…

The problem is it’s been left behind. Too many ideals and politics getting in the way of progress. As I said in my previous posts, the artificial walls put up (not allowing console stuff to be included in mainline for testing, instead forcing it all into MESS, for example) only serves to hamper the development prospects of the project, leaving it in this situation where other emulators and developers are free to work and support whatever they feel actually benefits their emulation.

I’ve brought a few drivers closer to perfection in recent times, the current Toaplan 2 video should be close and the best in field, likewise most of the Data East stuff (protection issues aside) but overall yes, MAME is starting to fail as both a reference, and accurate recreation of the original hardware. The recent Playstation work seems to have cut the performance in half, for no increase in compatibility (the only real fixes coming from MESS side) and still lags years behind the alternatives.

32X emulation still has ridiculous requirements due to the cost of perfect-syncing the CPUs under the MAME architecture, and that’s without any accurate RAM timing implemented, and while that’s a more MESS specific thing it will applies in equal measure to other multi-CPU arcade games, especially when the clocks start to get high. Even with 3D acceleration issues like this are going to pose a problem when it comes to things like Hikaru, where there are 2 highly clocked SH4s that need a good level of interleave even before the 3D rendering, and even just Saturn / ST-V if you’re to avoid all the CPU speed/sync boost hacks.

The constant change, and breaking of things in MAME is also bringing it a reputation as unreliable. Things are getting broken by mass changes, the never fixed. The Namco cocktail modes are a good example of this. It makes recommending a MAME version hard, and damages the reputation. Likewise the input/controller rewrite has replaced what was mostly stable and reliable code with code which has reintroduced old controller issues people were experiencing etc. Of course, overall these changes can be important but the public perception is that there hasn’t been a good, recommendable, reliable MAME version for a good few years, and I’m inclined to agree.

Guru and Smitdogg arguing over dumps is laughable too, especially with Guru also trying to demand cash out of Smit before he dumps certain things (Wyvern F0) and while none of that is directly connected to the project it also makes things look like a farce to outsiders, because again egos are getting in the way of progress. The most stupid thing is Guru’s claims are mostly frivolous, it’s he who has been dumping mostly clones, or things that nobody stands a chance of emulating.

The problems run too deep, I can’t steer the ship, and any attempts to just will end up with all guns blazing on me (as merely making suggestions or trying to encourage change results in that..). Meanwhile opportunities for real progress are rejected, the public are more and more alienated from the project and contributions to MAME continue to drop (while instead, MESS gets cool unexpected outside contributions all the time, like the recent 286 fixes)

While I am well hated by the scene, at least I’m insignificant and present no danger to hurting the project, but Smitty and Guru’s personal war with each other is hurting the project. I wish both of them would rethink things and bury the hatchet.

Its sad as emulation has enough “enemies” as is and politics, infighting, and personal grudges are causing problems.

I hope things work out, but I’m not optimistic.

I’ve not noticed a major slow down in the playstation games, although with so many games it’s difficult to run them all. No bug reports on that though. If anything it should be getting quicker as it’s not doing so many lookups of devices at run time, though there are more to get rid of.

The only “fix” I recall coming from mess broke screen updating, because it made fmv look better.

And one of the changes I made lately fixes the colours on the playstation boot screen.

That’s why I’ve said seems, there was at least a dramatic drop on MESS side, reported by eta I believe, and things like Libero Grande are barely hitting 60% ingame here in MAME now, when before they were closer to 100%

It could be coincidental, or related to other core changes (it was around the same time as the inputs overhaul) It wouldn’t be the first time there has been a significant drop in the driver performance due to other factors (last time was previous the compiler switchover, which wiped out the previous advantage Intel CPUs had with the driver)

Yes,I think the main politics due to some Mamedev don’t want old games can emulated,these man should not be dev at all…

Personally I think you should take the project lead again and call it a day with future emulation and fix the stuff which is still incorrect. With Aaron gone I have no interest in the latest builds, and Mame hasn’t finished the obscure laserdisc titles that the Daphne crew are incapable of producing.

Mame needs a new captain and you did a great job before…..

thanks for all the work you put into MAME. Great work, and you’ll always be missed.

I also agree that MAME is going downhill for quite some time now and it’s getting worse every day.
Several old games that used to work with 100% speed now hardly reach 70% speed… unless, of course, if you have a high-end quad-core computer.

I haven’t done any real work on my frontend for many months now as I am loosing interest in MAME (haven’t played MAME for the last 3 years!).

I don’t think there is a problem with people not wanting old games to be emulated. Newer hardware is one area MAME is not optimized for at all, older hardware (post-discrete at least) MAME can handle rather well, as long as the drivers are good enough.

I think a lot of developers don’t go back to revisit their older drivers, or other people’s older drivers either because they’ve retired from development (understandable), don’t have the knowledge / testing access to further advance the drivers (also understandable) or simply believe that ‘good enough’ is good enough. This, as I’ve highlighted before, has historically been a huge problem for drivers for console based systems when the drivers have been developed in MAME. There are also still plenty of cases of copy+pasted code where implementations should be merged (because the chips are identical etc. but individual implementations are only supporting what individual games appear to need, but sometimes missing things)

There are probably some drivers of my own that I’m guilty of doing this on, although if bug reports come up I do try to look into them, and will continue to do so.

There is also a wealth of knowledge out there now, some of which still hasn’t been transferred back into MAME. ElSemi has offered to support known and established developers port his Model 2 work to MAME in the past, yet nobody has taken him up on the offer, and MAME remains with buggy CPU cores, and vastly incomplete rendering. There are other areas and systems where MAME is going to have to bite the bullet and include MPEG decoding too, both for audio and video. Other projects have existed in a state where such things are present in the source, but compiled out in the official released binaries, and while that’s not ideal, I’m sure MAME and MESS could survive with a ‘REQUIRES_MPEG_COMPILED’ flag for drivers, reverting them to non-working state without it.

I think the most frustrating thing about the whole situation is how simple it would be at this exact point in time to make some of the changes. To officially tear down the barriers between MAME and MESS and combine the teams on paper is the simplest of tasks, and while it might not solve any problems overnight, it gives a clearer green light to developers to develop how they see fit in the long run. Of course this could be used as an example to further the “jack of all trades, master of none” argument, but as I’ve said before, I think simply to be able to master the shared systems you must remove artificial walls in the development process even if the expansion might seem initially counter-intuitive if the short term goal is adding focus to the project. You need a long term vision.

Arcade emulation, and arcade emulators are seen as a bit of a novelty, which I guess dates back to arcade games simply being there ‘to play’. The more hardcore developers have a greater interest in home systems where there always was a focus on ‘to develop for’, and getting them interested in MAME / MESS is IMHO important. MAME doesn’t resonate that whole ‘we’re serious about accuracy’ thing anymore, and MESS is a relatively overlooked side-project. A statement of intent, to push such things to the forefront, and show that MAME does care about having component emulation as accurate as is required for the console counterparts is important, and needed. Giving home systems equal recognition and equal status in the project helps make that statement, again IMHO.

I don’t for one minute claim that these hardcore devs are going to pick up MAME and magically improve all the not-so-good arcade specific stuff, but with the vast amount of shared components, improvements are inevitable. I’m not claiming improvements will happen overnight either, it could take years. Some people treat this like a new idea, but really the merging was put in motion when all the CPU cores were moved over to MAME many, many years ago, it’s always been a long term plan. Now just seems like a logical time to throw the switch, and see what happens.

I could be wrong about the whole thing, it’s possible, but these are my opinions based on my experience with the projects, other developers, and scene in general.

Well the PSX GPU code was wrong before and is only a little less wrong now, but it’s in progress of being rewritten. More graphics intensive games may show more of a difference. System 12 is also a 100mhz clock on the CPU and IIRC a faster clock on the GPU. So they need more processing power than standard stuff. I don’t remember eta saying anything to me about it slowing down, but I can ask him.

I love games from 80’s and some from the 90’s. newer games are not as fun.

It’s rather ironic though that many newer games need preserved as their hardware is almost throwaway. I appreciated the Guru’s discussion about PS2 arcade hardware.

I also think what’s left of the arcade industry wants throwaway hardware because they want cheap arcade games and not to have out of production machines competing with newer versions of arcade machines.

But this little too public war between Smitty and Guru isn’t going to help games get dumped. They have the right to behave however they choose, but why they choose to do so in public is beyond me.

Again I appreciate all that has been done by everyone involved in arcade emulation, not exclusively coders, but also those who purchased PCBs to get dumped, those who donated to the dumping project, those who work / worked on the artwork project, and those who have helped in other ways.

Well good luck with whatever you do. I agree Mame has been pretty stale for quite some time now. I get the urge to play with it for a few weeks every year. It’s a lot of fun especially with a proper RGB monitor.

I’d love to see the project drastically change direction. Accuracy is important and should be the primary focus especially now with systems more than powerful enough for the older games. If people want speed they could stick with an older version.

When I play the emulator BSNES the accuracy really shows, it feels so much more like the real thing. It’s hard to really put my finger on it but it just plays better than any other SNES emulator (other than the system requirements). I appreciate the small details high accuracy provides.

Well modern hardware simply isn’t reliable. I think this generation of consoles has shown that, prior to the current generation most people I know had a console, and it tended to last the lifetime of that generation, if not longer (everything from my SMS to GameCube/PS2 work fine)

This generation the majority of people I know are on at least their 2nd, and often 3rd replacement system, some under warranty, some outright purchased replacements. This doesn’t bode well for the next generation, unless they make some serious attempts to improve reliability I definitely won’t be paying launch prices for anything.

The problem is, the systems are becoming more complex. I don’t want to have to update the firmware all the time to play games, have hardware so locked down that even if something simple does go wrong, like the drive, it can’t be replaced without returning it to MS / Sony etc. The wireless pads by nature also have a limited lifespan, the Sony ones don’t even have an obvious way to replace the battery, at least Microsoft battery packs CAN take AA batteries for once off the shelf replacements aren’t available (should you be lucky enough that your console lasts that long) When a system needs updates just to play new blu-ray discs, or locks you out of half your games almost entirely because of a leap year bug then you have to be blind not to think there is *something* wrong.

All factors combined make this an absolutely awful generation in terms of hardware, and that ends of translating across to arcades too. In all honest, I wouldn’t even say the games were much better, improvements are all peripheral while more often than not the core games are worse than their previous iterations due to the constant dumbing down of things, worsened by an over dependence on additional DLC (devaluing the games and making some games seem more like a subscription, or worse in the case of pre-order stuff), planned obsolescence whereby servers for old games are removed (you can no longer host your own) etc. Overall this leads to a lack of feeling of ownership, a lack of feeling you can rely on something to be the same next time you pick it up, the push for an entirely digital marketplace only serves to advance this. On phones that can work, because people see them as throwaway devices anyway, but consoles and handhelds? the main defining differences is they’re meant to last for years.

Obsessions over things like Achivements and gamer points have also destroyed what was always one of the most fun things about games, the cheats. How many games have real cheats in them now? If an unintended cheat of exploit comes along it just ends up being patched out. To a point maybe it matters less, you have infinite lives by default in pretty much everything, playing most modern games is exactly like playing with the game-aid cheats on. That said, things like the debug mode in Sonic just wouldn’t be allowed anymore, but back in the day there was something fun about creating 200 angry monsters with a cheat code. When my PS3 died, and took my saves with it, I had no way to simply skip to the position I was in and no desire to really play through what had been so far nothing but a linear, go through the paces game script. For online games it makes sense, you don’t want cheaters, but most of these games aren’t really online, just people are valuing their achievements so much the thought of anybody cheating their way to them is akin to them robbing a bank. In reality the achievements you get are mostly just worthless crap, anybody can complete pretty much any game made today, so in most cases you’ve really achieved nothing unless you actually need a reminder that you did complete a game, and really looked in every pointless corner for objects which have no actual meaning and only furthering to highlight how static, painted on, superficial and linear most stuff in the game is as you do so.

Back to hardware and design choices, MemCards on the previous generation were pretty bad (and severely overpriced), but they even managed to make that worse by locking save games to your machine, and internal HDD, so when things go wrong the damage is even worse. Now they’re talking about putting all the saves in ‘the cloud’ which again is only going to last as long as the servers are running, then, byebye save games. What would be wrong with just requiring you to have a generic USB stick? The recent Sony hacks aren’t exactly going to give people confidence in online storage of anything important.

Nintendo’s HD system announcement does baffle me, because it’s almost as if they’ve not seen all these problems. The Wii, at the very least, has earned a reputation as the only reliable system of the generation, a cheap family system which can always be depended on, the negatives generally seen as the peripheral costs and reliance on novelty features. Despite this they’re going to be pushing probably the most expensive controllers in a system which will be of higher spec, and more expensive than the current offerings, with a timing which reminds me greatly of Sega releasing the Dreamcast, which was better than the other popular machines at the time (PSX, N64) but was then quickly blown away by the PS2, Xbox, GameCube etc.

Now, you could just say I was suffering from being a cynical bastard, the latest South Park did make me laugh, but really the negatives of this generation in terms of both hardware and games far outweigh any positives so it doesn’t surprise me that the arcades coming out at the moment are equally cheap throw-away junk based on the latest consoles, or cheap PC components. The entire games industry is IMHO broken at present and their actions are becoming less and less in the interests of the consumer, and more and more about control over a tight service with both the hardware and software being developed to support this goal.

Quality, innovation, challenge, replayability, dependability, and giving personal experience are far more important than blaming lackluster sales on a 2nd hand market, and being determined to kill it anyway possible, and treating anybody who dares buy used title like a thief as far as online play is concerned.

Of course you can’t blame the individual developers of the games for the majority of things here, this isn’t an attack on them at all. Most of the choices of ‘what must be’ are made at a far higher level and going against the grain is either impossible, or far too risky due to public response. Duke Nuken Forever was released recently, and sure, it’s not a great game, but it’s being ripped to shreds in reviews, yet most of the REAL flaws of the game are shared by practically every other FPS out there today, just the superficial coating isn’t quite as convincing. Linear story, check, painted on static scenary, check, lack of real choice, check, invisible walls, check, lack of consequences for your actions, check…the list goes on. If you try and do something new, something revolutionary, you hit similar problems. Public reception these days seems to have little to do with quality, simply that if you break the mold or don’t have the sparkle, you’re seen as doing something wrong. The end result, the majority of games are stale in addition to the unreliable hardware.

The next generation will be interesting, as little faith as I have in things, people can’t surely be happy to continue down this path. At what point do games strip away all gameplay, and just become scripted movies using the game engines and a couple of button choices? At that point you don’t even really need a games console, you can do a game like that with a DVD player for the fraction of the cost! At what point are the current mass number of gamers actually going to realise they’re not having fun anymore doing exactly the same thing over and over again in endless sequels, and want something a bit more meaty? That having to replace their system every year because it broke isn’t exactly fun? That the games they want to play can’t be played anymore, or they have to buy them again on the current system? Are current trends sustainable?

I know some people seem to want to attack me as ‘mentally ill’ for posting such comments, and thoughts, but that seems to be the scenes current way of dismissing anything they don’t like, and it’s about as mature as the rest of the playground behavior they engage in, but I’ll just continue to say things how I see them. Those that actually take the time to read and think about what I’ve said will see that plenty of valid points are being made.

What I find most deplorable about the current situation with Mame is that this blog is the only place on the internet to submit honest feedback to the Mame development team (who are no doubt reading these comments).

Mameworld.info is an absolute joke. It is a place where any constructive criticism of Mame, as an ongoing project, is utterly disallowed. The moment you try to suggest or criticize something about Mame, you are immediately pounced upon by a bunch of so-called fans fanatically defending it.

Just look at all the comments that have been posted here in Haze’s blog. Honest feedback from people who are disillusioned with Mame’s future.

You won’t see this on Mameworld.info, because it is a community populated by people who are too proud of what Mame has already achieved. And Mame dev, being surrounded by yes-men, quite enjoy all the praise.

As the Zen proverb goes; “The cup is full”. As long as you have too much pride in what you have achieved, there is no room for improvement. Of course, you should be proud with what you’ve achieved; but don’t allow this pride to degenerate into hate whenever someone suggests a way to move forward.

The reason it is so easy for Mamedev to hate Haze is because you – Mamedev – do not allow yourselves the opportunity to RECEIVE HONEST FEEDBACK from your users. And no, they’re not all rom kiddies. Read through some of the comments on this blog and recognize that. If you even mention the word “Haze” on Mameworld.info, you are immediately banned and the post removed. As a forum lurker, I see this happening and I just laugh because it’s so pathetic. Do you even comprehend how childish it is?

And because the word “Haze” instantly produces a perma-ban, any of the logical, valid and reasonable suggestions that are associated with his username immediately disappear into a void. One wonders how much that moderator on Mameworld really cares about Mame, when he destroys any opportunties for constructive discussion.

Why don’t you see what people really think of these proposals, given the opportunity to discuss them openly without reprisals? Hardware acceleration. Arcade and console unison. More open development of the project. Have an open discussion about it without trying to stifle it, and I think you’d be surprised to learn what people really think.

The crucial condition though is this: you have to be able to discuss things without resorting to Ad Hominem. IE: Defaming and denigrating the person who is making the argument, rather than sticking to the discussion of the proposals that are being made.

An example of Ad Hominem that you can relate to: in America, they accused president Obama of being Muslim, and not an American-born citizen. They did this because they were unable to match his arguments in any open debate. So they simply resort to defaming his character, in a desperate attempt to avoid any discussion of the important issues at hand.

It’s exactly the same as what you’re doing with Haze. And it’s…childish…to put it mildly.

You should be screaming for people to make suggestions. Instead, you simply consider them ignorant and ungreatful for daring to ask for anything, given everything that Mame has already given. If you’re serious about improving something, if you’re serious about working on a project, allow yourselves the opportunity to receive meaningful feedback. That’s how all endeavours – whether they are businesses or charities – become successful.

Well when you run your own message board and you pay the bills for it every month (when you do pay them that is ;) ) you have a right to allow or disallow what you have posted on your message board. I run one and a half, and I have kiddies posting crap and those posing things I could get in trouble for unless I mediate and ban.

BYOAC is the only board I know of where you can post about Mame (and I should start a new thread for you Haze) where the devs lurk but cannot bash.

But when you pay the bills you do have a say. it doesn’t mean that it is right, either post or post elsewhere – your choice.

Mame is going downhill (nice title) and it needs direction. Haze would fill that void and steer it to higher levels, getting rid of the dead wood in the process. That is what the Mamedevs fear – change.

Funny thing is, for a product of Project Management like change, one would think it would be welcomed with open arms and minds.

Still, it’s rather immature to not allow genuine MAME progress news when it happens, simply because this site is the source of it.

I don’t even care about posting rights, if they don’t want me there, for whatever reason, that’s fine. The point of ‘that progress never happened, because it’s from Haze’ is completely unjustifiable tho and tells you pretty much all you need to know about the site.

The general level of paranoia is stupid, entire ISPs and regions banned to keep certain people away, and the second somebody posts something controversial they get accused of being ‘that troll’ The one who is rather crazy and attempted to hack messageboard accounts, mass flood PMs, mass flood newsgroups, emails etc. with things which were factually and functionally incorrect. (ie acted in a way which was definitely worth banning, and actually reporting to his ISP)

There was a recent post originating with somebody else completely talking about making MAME more modular (not something I agree with personally, I think the strength is in the singularity and making MAME components pluggable will just lead to mass compatibility and testing issues as people attempt to hang on to older, but no fully compatible components which is a huge mess in several other pieces of software I’ve used) but it got exactly the same reception, was written off as coming from said troll, promptly deleted, and no debate too place.

By modular, I mean plugins, ie, instead of running MAME 0.142u5 you’d be running MAME 0.142u5 core with 68k core 1.34, z80 core 1.54, neogeo system driver 2.42, neogeo video driver 1.95, ym emulation driver 1.93, rom database 4.32, video output system 4.34 etc. etc.

Simply having 2 68k cores in older versions (ASM / C) caused pretty severe testing issues, and that was compile time. Allowing such a mix and match approach would only be damaging if somebody for example hacked up a faster SH2 library, that happened to break half the games, but everybody started using it because they were told it was faster, and only had to copy a file in place. False bug reports galore ;-)

Of course, while I don’t support the idea, I think it deserved some reasonable debate, or at least a clear explanation as to the downsides of it so the person proposing it knew it wasn’t really going to work, and that simply keeping older components for the games they liked was no guarantee that they would continue to run ‘how they liked them’, but rather break completely because emulation of other key components required has changed drastically since the old versions too, and keeping old pluggable drivers around wouldn’t necessarily even mean they were faster, because quite often slowdown comes from elsewhere. Memory use wouldn’t change either, because modern OS’s load on demand.

But no.. even a nice simple post like that, which would be a useful reference for anybody else thinking that it might be a good idea wasn’t allowed, the thread with the suggestion was locked / deleted.

I hear what your saying about some of the fanatical zealots who pounce on anyone who dares to stray from the party line when it comes to the development of Mame…

It’s nothing new though, i’ve been using Mame since 1998 and have always noted the hostile attitude to ‘outsiders’.

In the early days it was understandable to an extent, because ‘suggestions’ usually equated to ‘we want more roms and systems to play’…and quite rightly they were basically told to fxxx off…

But these days, with just about every system and their associated roms pretty freely available to anyone who spends 10 minutes in the company of Google, the hostile attitude just comes across as pure and simple arrogance…a few people seem to think they have ownership on an open source project.

These latest developments with HLSL, shows what a fantastic asset 3d cards can be for MAME, and should no longer be viewed as heresy and going against the ethos of MAME…

If MAME is going to keep on dumping all the recent PC based arcade systems and putting them in, then what choice do they have but to use 3d cards?….because they will never be remotely playable using pure software CPU rendering…

Personally i’d be happy for all these 3d based systems to be taken out out MAME, and finally perfect all the bugs with the 2d 8bit/16bit/32bit systems from the 80’s and 90’s….god knows theres enough work right there to keep MAME devs busy for years…

Trying to emulate stuff like NAOMI,Atomiswave,Chihro,Hikaru and the rest is pointless when these games can be found on all the consoles these days…and are really far too complex to ever realistically emulate to any satisfactory degree…

Taking stuff out won’t make any difference, except erode proper documentation of what MAME can document for the newer systems, which is irresponsible. Their existence doesn’t change a single thing w/regards the quality of the emulation of older stuff.

For other issues, there really is just mass censorship everywhere. Simply mentioning ‘all.mak’ anywhere, be it MW, or the MESS forums gets your post edited / deleted. Even just in shoutbox conversations. It really just seems like they’re scared of the idea, and don’t want any level of reasonable debate about it which is usually a telling way to avoid having anybody agree it might be a good idea, or because there isn’t a real rebuttal of it so instead it’s censored.

That’s another reason forking would be practically impossible. This place, or whoever forks it would simply be further censored off the net, probably denied use of the MAME trademark, and god knows what else. Rather than embrace change and progress they’d rather just kill off anybody who attempts it and do their best to make their progress invisible. As I’ve said before, it’s not me being ‘political’ here, it’s everybody else.

Sorry to hear about your MAME frustrations and that MAME is still being tied down by egotistical zealots. Their childish and petty actions are the reasons I stopped dealing with them. They’ve lost many talented coders over the years due to their elitist attitude.

Your contributions to the MAME project all these years have been greatly appreciated. MAME would not be what it is today without your hard work.

Tim Eckel – The infamous MAME.DK killer ;-)

Yes,Tim Eckel ,so far most of Mamedev don’t want the emulation work

It’s just silly..

It seems absolutely no criticism, constructive or otherwise is allowed.

I mentioned earlier the general problems with lack of user feedback on submissions, something which has been mentioned many times by people contributing, and is one of the reasons I don’t contribute core code.

Zap, post gone, near enough self-fulfilling what I’m talking about.

In order to express something to its fullest potential, we need to pay attention to ours thoughts and emotions, for these are the driving force of our actions.

Here then are some thoughts and emotions that you, Mamedev, will find valuable in making your project a continuing success. They are philosophical values of a successful business enterprise in America. Of course you are not a business: but these values are still meaningful and useful to you because, again, all of our actions are based upon thoughts and emotions. The better our thoughts and emotions, the more effective the action:

Judgment
You make wise decisions (people, technical, business, and creative) despite ambiguity
You identify root causes, and get beyond treating symptoms
You think strategically, and can articulate what you are, and are not, trying to do
You smartly separate what must be done well now, and what can be improved later

Impact
You accomplish amazing amounts of important work
You demonstrate consistently strong performance so colleagues can rely upon you
You focus on great results rather than on process
You exhibit bias-to-action, and avoid analysis-paralysis

Communication
You listen well, instead of reacting fast, so you can better understand
You are concise and articulate in speech and writing
You treat people with respect independent of their status or disagreement with you
You maintain calm poise in stressful situations

Innovation
You re-conceptualize issues to discover practical solutions to hard problems
You challenge prevailing assumptions when warranted, and suggest better approaches
You create new ideas that prove useful
You keep us nimble by minimizing complexity and finding time to simplify

Curiosity
You learn rapidly and eagerly
You seek to understand our strategy, market, subscribers, and suppliers
You are broadly knowledgeable about business, technology and entertainment
You contribute effectively outside of your specialty

Courage
You say what you think even if it is controversial
You make tough decisions without excessive agonizing
You take smart risks
You question actions inconsistent with our values

Honesty
You are known for candor and directness
You are non-political when you disagree with others
You only say things about fellow employees you will say to their face
You are quick to admit mistakes

Selflessness
You seek what is best for Netflix, rather than best for yourself or your group
You are ego-less when searching for the best ideas
You make time to help colleagues
You share information openly and proactively

Passion
You inspire others with your thirst for excellence
You care intensely about Netflix’s success
You celebrate wins
You are tenacious
We Want to Work with People Who Embody These Nine Values

This might be off-topic but I really miss the “wav” samples for several old games. I wish they would re-implement the wav samples for games tagged as “discrete audio” (keep it an option between wav samples or discrete audio).
The discrete sound will never be fully simulated and the sound for these games (like Donkey Kong) just sound horrible now (and muffed).

But I know this will never ever ever happen :(

Along those lines, it makes sense to add an impulse response filter to the audio output. Then you could simulate the affect of the speaker and cabinet on the sound. Only a few different cabinets would need to be measured (audio sweep type measurements, not physical dimension measurements). Other silly things can be modeled as well, like a torn cone, a loose piece of hardware, or other sympathetic resonances or vibrations.

This is do-able today, and is perfectly hand-in-hand with the new hlsl filters.

Quote from above by Haze:

As I said in my previous posts, the artificial walls put up (not allowing console stuff to be included in mainline for testing, instead forcing it all into MESS, for example) only serves to hamper the development prospects of the project

Is there some way to access these ‘previous posts’?
Seems you really took the words “decided to make a fresh start to this blog.” to your heart because I can’t find anything else but this post on the blog.

Did you have another blog before? Where is it located? I’d like to read the ‘whole story’.

(I just actually stumbled in here trying to find a way for highscore-saving to work in Mame 0.142. My save-states just keeps getting crashing the games I play. :-/ but got intrigued by the post and comment above.)

No, I cleaned out the old database completely. Searching for various game names on Google was coming up with older WIP updates, showing incomplete emulation etc. leading people to think that things weren’t properly emulated when they were.

The updates and such were useful at the time for showing what was going on (like HazeMD etc.) but for the most part they were long past their useful life so I simply nuked the entire database.

On the topic of Forking – Haze if anyone could possibly do that – it would be you.

Even if its not got the word “MAME” in the title (due to trademark..), belive it or not you already have a following and building a community around it wouldn’t take as much effort as you might think.

R. Belmont says MAME already is multithreaded about as far as you can reasonably go. Cothreads is just what I said: it allows correct emulation of cases where a device can halt the CPU mid-read

Visiting the official Mame forums I wondered what was going on. To me there only so much you can do with the classic arcade games and it seems to me that the newer 3d games might deserve a Mame3d spin off. I do enjoy playing still but wonder what great games I might be missing. I think the preservation of the games and the game play is the most important thing about Mame. How it’s done should be secondary as long as it’s done in a healthy coherent manner so that the next generation can take a hold with it and run with it. Maybe that’s part of it, the lack of feeling relevant in this new era of HD, graphics. I can assure you though, my 6 year old son is and will be a classic game fan for his life. We sit down and enjoy playing new and classic games on a regular basis. Game play, like love for family and friends does not age.

recently some dev are work on Naomi driver,it’s still worth expected…..

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